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Thread: A question for all of you with CD decks!

  1. #1

    A question for all of you with CD decks!

    Hey everyone!

    I own a moderate pair of CD Decks, some DNS-1000s to be exact... see the pic if you don't know the ones I'm banging on about,

    http://www.djabstraction.com/images/...ize/home_2.jpg

    Anyway! I have come across what I would consider a serious flaw with the decks, so much so that I would consider it a "show stopper" if I were to come across such a bug with any software that I have developed over the past 7 years (but what do I know? ).

    So basically, this is what happens

    1. I set a cue point at the beginning of the first beat that I want to start mixing in.
    2. I press play, but as I press it quickly I only catch the edge of the button but not the dead centre, and without touch *any* other button, playback starts, then stops and my cue point moves!!

    You can easily replicate this issue on these decks by pressing play/pause twice quickly.

    Basically what I'm asking is, would you as an owner of a pair of CD decks, consider this to be a big problem?

    *imagine*

    You are about to mix in a track quite close to the end of the one that is playing, you have your cue point set, and in a hurry you press the play button, but playback doesn't start, so you press cue to take it back to your point, play again at the beginning of the next bar of beats, but oh no! what's gone on? Nothing is in time anymore as your cue point shifted by a few seconds! Too late to get the track in now.

    If you have a set of more expensive Denons, such as the 3500s, could you please test this to see if you have the same problem? Steps to reproduce are below...

    1. Turn on deck
    2. Load a CD
    3. Change the platter to search mode, *not scratch mode*
    4. Set your cue point a short way into the track
    5. Write down the exact value of your cue point
    6. Press play/pause quickly a few times, double tap it, quadrouple tap it. It doesn't matter how many times you press it, this *shouldn't* effect your cue point.
    7. Press Cue to take you back to your cue point
    8. Check to see if the time is exactly the same as what you had already written down.

    So you can see exactly what I'm blabbering on about, I made a video of the problem happening...

    [YOUTUBE]NHpxuyeZDms[/YOUTUBE]

    I honestly my decks, but I would adore them if they didn't have this bug anymore!

  2. #2
    that does indeed look like a serious bug. i'll try that out with my own cd decks as soon as i get home, but i never noticed any such behaviour. on the other hand, maybe you should check the user's manual of your decks, maybe it's not a bug, but a feature?
    http://dfx.at/sets/ :: http://myspace.com/dfx_dj

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by dfx View Post
    that does indeed look like a serious bug. i'll try that out with my own cd decks as soon as i get home, but i never noticed any such behaviour. on the other hand, maybe you should check the user's manual of your decks, maybe it's not a bug, but a feature?
    Hey DFX, Indeed! I have also checked the manual and according to Denon the only way to move the cue point is by using the platter or the search buttons, the play/pause button is only meant for resuming and pausing playback. I've been asking in the Denon forums too, and I was told that I should just accept it and basically get over it, which I'm not going to do easily

    I could make a few more videos of problems with the decks, but I would rather they just release a software update, maybe I'm being picky, but I'm not paying that much for something that has such a fundamental flaw.

    Anyways, I can't wait to hear how you get on with your decks, I suspect they will be just fine and dandy

  4. #4
    btw, what happens when you play press/pause in a "normal" way, that is, not so fast repeatedly? i was reading your post in the denon forums, or rather one of the replies which claims that play/pause can indeed be used to set a new cue point. so my question is, when you press play after you've set your initial cue point, then let it play for a few seconds, then pause it, let it rest for a few more seconds, then press play again etc... does it also reset the cue point?
    http://dfx.at/sets/ :: http://myspace.com/dfx_dj

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by dfx View Post
    btw, what happens when you play press/pause in a "normal" way, that is, not so fast repeatedly? i was reading your post in the denon forums, or rather one of the replies which claims that play/pause can indeed be used to set a new cue point. so my question is, when you press play after you've set your initial cue point, then let it play for a few seconds, then pause it, let it rest for a few more seconds, then press play again etc... does it also reset the cue point?
    Okay hang on a second, this is what happens if I do as you just said,

    1. Press play, playback starts
    2. Press pause, wait a few seconds
    3. Press play again <cue point reset to position it was paused at in 2>

    I guess when used in that context, it could make sense, well almost. But what I am experiencing during use is nothing like this... again I'll explain...

    1. I go to press play, playback starts and stops *instantly*.
    2. Cue point has moved.

    This can happen if you do not press the button dead in the centre, but what confuses me is if it was a double press, then why doesn't the music continue to play? It stops, so that would suggest that the deck is getting 3 presses in 1 press in order for it to pause again.

    Fresh out of the manual,

    ---------------------

    Move a cue point

    If you would like to start playback other from the beginning of the track, you need to move Cue Point using fast Search and manual search function.

    1. You can move to the approximate playback start position by (24) or (25) FAST SEARCH buttons.

    [QUICK JUMP]

    If the FAST SEARCH button is tapped shortly, the playback position jumps about 10 seconds. The jump time can be selected in the preset mode from 10,20,30 or 60 sec.

    [FAST SEARCH]

    When the FAST SEARCH button is pressed and held in, the disc is fast searched.

    2. Push the (18) DISC MODE button to set (9) Scratch Disc to search mode. The (18) DISC MODE button LEDs will turn off.

    3. Turn the (9) Scratch Disc to change Cue point. You can hear the short sound of the current Cue point.

    When (9) Scratch Disc is turned in the pause, Cue or frame repeat mode, it works as the manual search function.

    4. After you found your preferred Cue point, push the CUE button then a new Cue point is set.

    ---------------------

    There is only 1 other comment on setting the cue points and this is as follows,

    ---------------------

    You can set and change Cue point as follows.
    • When you started playback
    • Track select finished
    • manual search.


    ---------------------

    So would that mean that they would not see this as a problem? I guess technically they could say that what I am experiencing is by design, but that would really be turning a blind eye to a serious problem imo.

    hmmmmmm

  6. #6
    so basically, when you press play/pause during playback (playback will pause then), then press the same button again (playback will resume then), this will set the cue point to the position where you resumed playback from? even you've set another cue point before? this is pretty stupid imho, as it's not uncommon to hit play/pause inadvertedly when the track is not faded in yet.

    i think what you're experiencing is indeed a double press. my description from before was:

    1. track is playing
    2. hit play/pause once
    3. track is paused now
    4. hit play/pause again
    5. track is playing again and cue point has been set.

    what you are experiencing is probably:

    1. track is paused
    2. play/pause is hit
    3. track is playing now (for a very short while)
    4. another press of play/pause is registered by the player
    5. track is paused again

    now, while the track is paused, hitting the cue button would define a new cue point. since you don't want to do that, the only other option is to resume playback by hitting play/pause a third time. on any other player, this would not define a new cue point and then hitting the cue button would return to the real cue point you defined formerly (and stop playback). apparently on the denons, this has already defined a new cue point, and your previous real cue point is immediately lost.

    so from my current understanding, this is not really a bug, but rather a horribly bad design. unless this behaviour can be turned off somehow?
    http://dfx.at/sets/ :: http://myspace.com/dfx_dj

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by dfx View Post
    so basically, when you press play/pause during playback (playback will pause then), then press the same button again (playback will resume then), this will set the cue point to the position where you resumed playback from? even you've set another cue point before? this is pretty stupid imho, as it's not uncommon to hit play/pause inadvertedly when the track is not faded in yet.

    i think what you're experiencing is indeed a double press. my description from before was:

    1. track is playing
    2. hit play/pause once
    3. track is paused now
    4. hit play/pause again
    5. track is playing again and cue point has been set.

    what you are experiencing is probably:

    1. track is paused
    2. play/pause is hit
    3. track is playing now (for a very short while)
    4. another press of play/pause is registered by the player
    5. track is paused again

    now, while the track is paused, hitting the cue button would define a new cue point. since you don't want to do that, the only other option is to resume playback by hitting play/pause a third time. on any other player, this would not define a new cue point and then hitting the cue button would return to the real cue point you defined formerly (and stop playback). apparently on the denons, this has already defined a new cue point, and your previous real cue point is immediately lost.
    Yup this sounds right, the track never continues to play when this error occurs, it just stutters then stops, erasing the cue point at the same time. I've used to decks so much over the past 8 months and I've had it happen on the odd occasion, but the past few weeks has seen it pop it's head ip quite a few times.

    Quote Originally Posted by dfx View Post
    so from my current understanding, this is not really a bug, but rather a horribly bad design. unless this behaviour can be turned off somehow?
    Sure, I understand, so basically this will be standard Denon behaviour? Unfortunately there is no way of switching this off, I wish there was!

    Maybe I'm partly to blame for experiencing this issue allot lately as I've been getting quite stressed out by it, so more prone to mistake, so maybe I'm not being as delicate on the buttons as I should be, but I know one thing, I won't be upgrading to the 3500s when the time comes, I'll go for Pioneer instead!

    Thanks a million for your time, I'm going to try to contact Denon by snail mail and see what they have to say, might be worth a shot!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by djabstraction View Post
    Sure, I understand, so basically this will be standard Denon behaviour?
    well i don't know about that, i'm just guessing might as well be that other denon players work differently. it could also be that only the _first_ time pressing "play" on a certain track sets the cue point. if this is the case, you could develop a personal workaround for this issue
    http://dfx.at/sets/ :: http://myspace.com/dfx_dj

  9. #9
    well, as promised, i tried this whole thing on my pioneer cdj 800s. they don't do that
    http://dfx.at/sets/ :: http://myspace.com/dfx_dj

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by djabstraction View Post
    Hey everyone!

    I own a moderate pair of CD Decks, some DNS-1000s to be exact... see the pic if you don't know the ones I'm banging on about,

    http://www.djabstraction.com/images/...ize/home_2.jpg

    Anyway! I have come across what I would consider a serious flaw with the decks, so much so that I would consider it a "show stopper" if I were to come across such a bug with any software that I have developed over the past 7 years (but what do I know? ).

    So basically, this is what happens

    1. I set a cue point at the beginning of the first beat that I want to start mixing in.
    2. I press play, but as I press it quickly I only catch the edge of the button but not the dead centre, and without touch *any* other button, playback starts, then stops and my cue point moves!!

    You can easily replicate this issue on these decks by pressing play/pause twice quickly.

    Basically what I'm asking is, would you as an owner of a pair of CD decks, consider this to be a big problem?

    *imagine*

    You are about to mix in a track quite close to the end of the one that is playing, you have your cue point set, and in a hurry you press the play button, but playback doesn't start, so you press cue to take it back to your point, play again at the beginning of the next bar of beats, but oh no! what's gone on? Nothing is in time anymore as your cue point shifted by a few seconds! Too late to get the track in now.

    If you have a set of more expensive Denons, such as the 3500s, could you please test this to see if you have the same problem? Steps to reproduce are below...

    1. Turn on deck
    2. Load a CD
    3. Change the platter to search mode, *not scratch mode*
    4. Set your cue point a short way into the track
    5. Write down the exact value of your cue point
    6. Press play/pause quickly a few times, double tap it, quadrouple tap it. It doesn't matter how many times you press it, this *shouldn't* effect your cue point.
    7. Press Cue to take you back to your cue point
    8. Check to see if the time is exactly the same as what you had already written down.

    So you can see exactly what I'm blabbering on about, I made a video of the problem happening...

    [YOUTUBE]NHpxuyeZDms[/YOUTUBE]

    I honestly my decks, but I would adore them if they didn't have this bug anymore!
    I hope that you got your problem fixed!

    Hey, could you please list the gear that you got there in that studio of yours.

    Thanks!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by dfx View Post
    well, as promised, i tried this whole thing on my pioneer cdj 800s. they don't do that
    Pioneer ftw!

    Denon ftl!

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Abominus View Post
    I hope that you got your problem fixed!

    Hey, could you please list the gear that you got there in that studio of yours.

    Thanks!
    Hey Abominus,

    It looks unfixable at the moment, unless Denon decide to make a little ammendment.

    I've not got masses of gear, I have,

    2 x Denon DNS-1000 CDJs
    1 x Numark DXM-06 24bit Digital Mixer (Although it doesn't output digital )
    2 x Edirol MA-20D Active Monitors (No longer in production )

    Actually... here's a YouTube video, ignore the messy desk

    [YOUTUBE]uNeJc0Ng1c8[/YOUTUBE]

    haha sorry I'm not a YouTube **** honestly

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by djabstraction View Post
    Hey Abominus,

    It looks unfixable at the moment, unless Denon decide to make a little ammendment.

    I've not got masses of gear, I have,

    2 x Denon DNS-1000 CDJs
    1 x Numark DXM-06 24bit Digital Mixer (Although it doesn't output digital )
    2 x Edirol MA-20D Active Monitors (No longer in production )

    Actually... here's a YouTube video, ignore the messy desk

    [YOUTUBE]uNeJc0Ng1c8[/YOUTUBE]

    haha sorry I'm not a YouTube **** honestly
    Very nice setup!

    Wow, how old are those Edirols?




  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Abominus View Post
    Very nice setup!

    Wow, how old are those Edirols?



    Cheers

    They must be about 4 years old now, one of the best things I have ever bought and I have no idea why they stopped making them

    I really want some Tapco S8's, apparently they are designed for playing really loud dance music

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by djabstraction View Post
    Cheers

    They must be about 4 years old now, one of the best things I have ever bought and I have no idea why they stopped making them

    I really want some Tapco S8's, apparently they are designed for playing really loud dance music
    Hmmmmmm. I am guessing that you live across the pond, yes?

    Personally, I am a JBL fan but most of them are rather pricey.

    http://www.jblpro.com/products/recor...300/index.html

    I have a pair of the Control 1 Pros for a 4 channel stereo setup for watching movies/TV and all.

    http://www.jblpro.com/products/installedsound/Control/

    I got them from Amazon.com for like, $75 new. They are tiny but GOD do they sound great. If I had them for a studio setup, all I would need a is kick ass subwoofer and that will be it

    I do know that most Yamahas are not all that great for Dance music

    Are you hoping to produce Trance tracks? What about a female vocalist?

    Abominus

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